Lets talk about the NC Education Lottery

[oldsophomore]

on a related note: Wake County just approved their reassignment plan which is going to move 10,000 children next year...f'ing bullshit.

[Andi]

I'm drunk so this might not come out exactly as I mean it.

Schools are not businesses. Businesses are about profit, and hence are inherently inequal. Schools should provide a quality education for EVERYONE.

As for poor vs. wealthy areas, it is my impression that North Carolina has a massively f-ed up system for dealing with this.

I went to school in THE POOREST COUNTY in New York State. My school had an enourmous percentage of kids on welfare, yet in retrospect I got a very good education. I didn't have access to a ton of fancy equipment but I did have everything I needed. I had access to AP courses and honors courses. There were excellent opportunities for students who needed remediation or special ed. The local property taxes would never support a quality education, but most of the funding for my school came from the state. The system is not perfect but I did receive a good education, as I believe, did the rest of my class.

Higher ed and adult ed are important but basic K12 is the most important.

[Ben Moser]

Let me help things out here. I've paused Scrubs on the DVR so to better give my attention.

1. Privitization is a horrible idea. Horrible. Pretty much whenever anyone says that privitization of a government program is a good idea, you should hit them on the head repeatedly with a large, blunt object. Business models will not work for something that is supposed to be good for everyone because of the basic structure of business. Privitization would leave the people who need the most with the least.

2. Jason is concerned that funds will be misappropriated. Presumably, this will be done by elected officials. The same elected officials Jason is concerned won't spend his tax monies in other areas the way he'd like them to be spent. You want better elected officials? Educate the masses. You want to educate the masses? Fund public schools. Democracy doesn't work well for idiots. Witness our current government, installed by people thinking "Dang Jethro, I can't afford to feed my family but I'll be damned if we let them baby killers, homos, and commies get their way."

3. Ross touched on this, so I'll be short. You want to improve an area, the public schools are the best place to start. Period.

4. Bettering the lives of the parents of children is noble. But ask a parent if they'd rather have that money spent on making sure their children can do better than what they got. I know I want my kids to have a better go with the NC school system than I got. I was horribly underprepared for my North Carolina public univeristy experience by my North Carolina public high school experience. HORRIBLY, I say. That shouldn't be. Something's fucked up there.

5. I'll probably add more tomorrow, but Scrubs demands my attention now. I'd probably not be such a slave to my television set if I had better schooling when I was growing up.

[nyladnama]

Originally Posted by Andi

I'm drunk.

...Really?

[Ben Moser]

Andi had a Tom Collins tonight. I did too.

[TedHobgood]

Originally Posted by Andi

And yet you have an aversion to supporting education for other people's kids?

I am full of odd dichotomy. I do have an aversion to financing other people's kids, because the benefits are once removed from my own experience, and yet I think that education is one of the most important things in the country. I liken it to the similar aversion I have to spending money on food; I eat it and it's gone, I can't directly enjoy it. I'm weird and troubled.

Originally Posted by Andi

Public education is important to everyone, not just those with kids.

Agreed, wholeheartedly.

[The Dynamo]

This thread is so intense that I am humping a light bulb.

[oldsophomore]

Originally Posted by Ben Moser

1. Privitization is a horrible idea. Horrible. Pretty much whenever anyone says that privitization of a government program is a good idea, you should hit them on the head repeatedly with a large, blunt object. Business models will not work for something that is supposed to be good for everyone because of the basic structure of business. Privitization would leave the people who need the most with the least.

Private Schools are businesses.

Originally Posted by ben moser

2. Jason is concerned that funds will be misappropriated. Presumably, this will be done by elected officials. The same elected officials Jason is concerned won't spend his tax monies in other areas the way he'd like them to be spent. You want better elected officials? Educate the masses. You want to educate the masses? Fund public schools. Democracy doesn't work well for idiots. Witness our current government, installed by people thinking "Dang Jethro, I can't afford to feed my family but I'll be damned if we let them baby killers, homos, and commies get their way."

This can be done through private schools. No need for public money to pay for it.

Originally Posted by ben moser

3. Ross touched on this, so I'll be short. You want to improve an area, the public schools are the best place to start. Period.

Adult education is the best place to start for no other reason than they can already vote. It's a timeline thing.

Originally Posted by ben moser

4. Bettering the lives of the parents of children is noble. But ask a parent if they'd rather have that money spent on making sure their children can do better than what they got. I know I want my kids to have a better go with the NC school system than I got. I was horribly underprepared for my North Carolina public univeristy experience by my North Carolina public high school experience. HORRIBLY, I say. That shouldn't be. Something's fucked up there.

It isn't the sole responsibility of the government to prepare you for school. There are many other contributors. (That is not to say that, in your case, they did not contribute) It's just not that simple. **Added through an edit.** I wanted to touch on the fact that I am a HORRIBLE student. Do I blame this on the school system I was brought up in? No, not at all. I went to one of the better public schools in the state (I tried to search for the rankings, but the only thing on google concerned a basketball recruit we had 5 years ago, which is yet another problem with schools). The point is, I believe that I would have been better prepared if my father wasn't a college dropout (he later finished at a small community college and now does well for himself) and my mother had actually gone to college(she still hasn't and it's something I plan on helping her do when I have the means to do so...I know it's her great regret.)**end edit**

Originally Posted by ben moser

5. I'll probably add more tomorrow, but Scrubs demands my attention now. I'd probably not be such a slave to my television set if I had better schooling when I was growing up.

Finally, something we agree on...

[oldsophomore]

This country was built on the capitalist system, for which economics (the rules of business if you will) is the basis. If the end goal is the ability of the students coming out of school instead of money, the same rules could apply.

Now, imagine a world where the private sector could identify talent in, hell, 9th grade, and take over the brunt of the monetary responsibility for these students. For those of you who just shuddered, consider this: Is it so different than a company subsidizing your education now, post-hire? Not at all. Imagine the money that would be saved by the government. Imagine how high the quality of education could be at Microsoft High. Is it the right answer? Of course not. But it is closer to the right way than the current system.

As for businesses being about profit...what would you call (insert any not-for-profit business)...that is not to say that the people who work there don't get paid what they are worth (that only happens when the government runs the system because, as a whole, the gov't is bad with money: read $1 trillion debt limit increase this week)

As for your backstory; A great example of someone who made due with what they were given. Don't know how close you are to your classmates, but would you say that a majority of them are in the same boat? I would venture to say "no".

That comes down to the individual and many others outside influences.

Originally Posted by Andi

Schools are not businesses. Businesses are about profit, and hence are inherently inequal. Schools should provide a quality education for EVERYONE.

Now, for the moment when Jason pisses off a lot of people:

I made an argument many years back which I still stand behind.

WITHOUT THE UNEDUCATED OUR COUNTRY WOULD FALL APART.

If everyone had the same level of education, who would run the fry machine at McDonald's? Who would pick up my trash? Who would change the linens in my hotel room? The answer? Immigrants, most of whom would be working illegally, who would siphon money from our economic system and send it to their own countries, diluting our economy. The more money going outside of the borders, the more money we need to be made available (printed), the more money in circulation, the lower the value of the dollar.

If you want to weaken the USA, the dollar is the place to start. Read the financial section of the newspaper. Read the transcript of the President's address to the nation this afternoon...this is a real concern. Sure, we may make the humanitary argument that we want to protect those who are snuck into our country under harsh conditions, but the fact is, we can't afford to lose the cash.

So, when Americans start to turn down jobs in favor of unemployment because it is below their educational level, where should employers go? Outside the US. What has been their solution? Internationally based call centers (Dell is adding 10,000 jobs to India over the next decade), illegal immigrants, increased spending on technology which eliminates jobs, etc.

On an individual basis, I AM in favor of a fair chance for everyone. Economically, it is not feasible for EVERYONE to succeed.

Drop your Care Bears and pick up a GI Joe; Unfortunately, everyone has to fight for what they want, and we all aren't going to win.

[Ben Moser]

Private schools are businesses. Not not-for-profit businesses, just plain businesses. And private schools only take care of the people who can afford them. It's not at all about finding the smartest, it's about finding the ones who can afford the credentials.

If schools were to go private Richy McDumbass would beat out Smarty McPoorboy 9.99 times out of 10. Of course, that one-hundedth of the Smarty McPoorboys would be paraded around as a "See? I told you that anyone could make it in America" trophy by Richy McDumbass, who would be running our country because his daddy's money got him pretty fucking far.

It's not about leaving the uneducated the way they are so they'll clean up our shit. It's about giving people an oppotunity to do something other than clean up shit. There are going to be people who, for whatever reason, remain uneducated. They can clean up our shit. Don't let someone smarter than both of us clean up our shit just because he was born in the part of town that all of the shit cleaners came from.

Next up: is it the State's job to prepare me for College? Damn right it is. Is it entirely the State's job? No. But here's the thing, I did my part. My parents did their part. This is probably the only reason I eventually found my groove in college. My school didn't do shit.